Comments on Upgrade policy and future pricing

[JCF1976]

This topic relates to the V5 Upgrade policy and future pricing topic. (http://www.wrensoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1124)

These prices are for the 32bit software. We might do a 64bit version at some point and it might have a slightly higher price (and capacity).

Please excuse my ignorance, 1) what is the difference between 32bit and 64bit software? And, 2) with direct application to Zoom V5, explain the difference between 32bit Zoom V5 and 64bit Zoom V5.

[wrensoft]

For 2006 we are only doing a 32bit version of Zoom. 99.9% of all the software on the market today is 32bit. But all new CPUs are 64bit, while still being 32bit compatible.

There are also two version of Windows XP, 2003 Server and Vista. A 32bit version and a 64bit version.

If you have 64bit hardware and 64bit Windows, then you can run 64bit software (as well as most 32bit software, with the exception of device drivers). At the moment about 99.5% of people are still using 32bit Windows. So the 64bit market is tiny at the moment. But in 3 to 6 years, this will all change. 32bit will be dropped in the same was that 16bit was dropped (when Windows 95 replaced Windows 3.1 and DOS).

Native 64bit software can, run slightly faster because up to twice the data can be moved around at a time. But the big advantage for a product like Zoom is that we can use more RAM. A lot more RAM. The 32bit limit is 2GB for an application. The 64bit limit is 16 TB (Terabyte) of virtual memory. That is a 8000 times increase is memory space!

Of course most motherboards don't support 16TB of RAM. But many now support 8GB or 16GB. Which is well above the 32bit usage limit.

I also did a few benchmarks showing some of the 64bit speed advantages (http://passmark.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261).

So for Zoom customers with a few million pages to index, having a 64bit version of the software would be good news. But if you have less than a million pages on your web site, you probably won't notice the difference between 32bit and 64bit.

[JCF1976]

License keys
License keys from V4 will not work in V5 of the software. For those of you who will get a free upgrade when the final version arrives, you can E-mail us to get a V5 key now. This means that if you purchase V4 today, you can E-Mail us to get a free V5 license key.

I own a license for V4, purchased more than 6 months before the final release date for V5. You offer a free V5 licence key for those who purchase V4 today. What about people who already own V4? How can we purchase V5 (Pro) now and get the V5 licence key now, while we are still waiting on the "gold" release of V5?

[wrensoft]

As stated in the initial post, "Users who have purchased V4 more than 6 month ago, or purchased V2 or V3, will get a 50% discount off the retail price, if they wish to upgrade. E-mail us for ordering details if you can't wait for the final release."

[McCrown]

In Version 4 there is NO LIMIT in professional version (www.wrensoft.com/zoom/editions.html (http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/editions.html)).

Now we pay the SAME PRICE for version 5 professional version WITH LIMITS.

What's that!?!?!?!?

McC.

[petevick]

In Version 4 there is NO LIMIT in professional version (www.wrensoft.com/zoom/editions.html (http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/editions.html)).

Now we pay the SAME PRICE for version 5 professional version WITH LIMITS.

What's that!?!?!?!?

McC.but if you currently have ver 4 pro, you get a free upgrade to ver 5 Enterprise - "People with the V4 Pro edition will get the V4 Enterprise edition"

[wrensoft]

Yes, in V4 Pro there was no fixed limit in Zoom. But as we pointed out in the FAQ (http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/support/faq_features.html#largesites) you would start to run out of RAM once you get to about 100,000 pages on a typical computer (with 1GB - 2GB of RAM).

If you already have V4, then the upgrade will be free or 50% off the full price. Not the same price.

In V5 Pro you should be able to index 200,000 pages without running out of RAM on a typical computer. V5 uses much less RAM. Especially beyond the 100,000 page level.

You might argue that V4 Pro is better than V5 Pro on a PC with 4GB of RAM. But Windows XP will only allow the use of 2GB per application. So this is not a valid argument.

V5 Pro will be better and more powerful in every respect for all current V4 users. Capacity will effectively double in V5 Pro.

[JCF1976]

As stated in the initial post, "Users who have purchased V4 more than 6 month ago, or purchased V2 or V3, will get a 50% discount off the retail price, if they wish to upgrade. E-mail us for ordering details if you can't wait for the final release."

My apologies. I don't recall seeing that text there before I made my post.

[cardiogr]

Yes, in V4 Pro there was no fixed limit in Zoom. But as we pointed out in the FAQ (http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/support/faq_features.html#largesites) you would start to run out of RAM once you get to about 100,000 pages on a typical computer (with 1GB - 2GB of RAM).

If you already have V4, then the upgrade will be free or 50% off the full price. Not the same price.

In V5 Pro you should be able to index 200,000 pages without running out of RAM on a typical computer. V5 uses much less RAM. Especially beyond the 100,000 page level.

You might argue that V4 Pro is better than V5 Pro on a PC with 4GB of RAM. But Windows XP will only allow the use of 2GB per application. So this is not a valid argument.

V5 Pro will be better and more powerful in every respect for all current V4 users. Capacity will effectively double in V5 Pro.

I think that this policy is not right since it was not announced from the beginning.
When you advertised Zoom 5 and you urged us to buy Zoom 4.2 with a free upgrade license there was no announcement about setting limitations to Professional Edition. It was even not announced when you introduced the Beta forum section. You were only mentioning a 64bit version.
Now, you set limitations to Professional edition and you force many of the Professional Edition users to pay in order to raise the limitation.

In addition after downloading Zoom Search 5 beta 14 I have noticed that you have set a limitation not only to the number of pages but also to the number of words.
I am using Zoom search Engine for a localhost with no more than 40.000 pages that are indexed, but with >500.000 unique words.
How do you claim that the capacity is doubled, since I had no ram problem indexing my site with Zoom 4.2 and now with Zoom 5 I have to pay extra to index the same site?

I believe that a honest policy would be to charge extra people who need frequent support because of their huge site and not to charge all of us.
And additionally it would be reasonable from your part to provide a free upgrade to Enterprise Edition at least to existing Professional Users.
You could start implementing this new policy after a reasonable time, so that all future buyers can see the exact price/limitations and decide maybe also between other competitve products in the same category.

I really like Zoom Search Engine and I hope that you recognise no offense in my words, but I got very disappointed after reading this announcement.

[wrensoft]

it would be reasonable from your part to provide a free upgrade to Enterprise Edition at least to existing Professional Users


As already stated, people with the V4 Pro edition who are entitled to a free upgrade will get the V5 Enterprise edition for free.

If you purchased the software some time back are outside of the free upgrade window, then you can upgrade to the edition of your choice at a discount, if you think the upgrade is worthwhile.

So in fact purchasing V4.2 now is a great deal, as you get V4.2 Pro and you'll get V5 Enterprise as well.

[cardiogr]

Then I apologize myself, I didn't understand this parameter. This is very honest and right from your part! Thank you!
I have already received an upgrade key for Zoom 5 Professional. Should I send my details again to upgrade to Enterprise edition?

[wrensoft]

Update: I just updated the retail pricing, upgrade pricing and final capacity breakdowns in the initial post at the top of this thread.

Yes, anyone who purchased V5 before we announced the final pricing breakdown (i.e. before today) will also get the Enterprise edition. You can E-mail us for a new key if you like.

And yes, we only decided to do the Enterprise edition late in the development process and it could have been slightly better articulated on our part.

[iampedro]

It would be great if you provided 64bit for the enterprise versions sooner than later becuase most people with vista will have 64 bit cpu's I know that I will soon...

[Ray]

It would be great if you provided 64bit for the enterprise versions sooner than later becuase most people with vista will have 64 bit cpu's I know that I will soon...

As already mentioned earlier in the thread by David here (http://www.wrensoft.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4548&postcount=3), 32-bit software runs on 64-bit hardware. So the existing 32-bit version of Zoom will run fine on your machines with 64-bit CPUs.

So for Zoom customers with a few million pages to index, having a 64bit version of the software would be good news. But if you have less than a million pages on your web site, you probably won't notice the difference between 32bit and 64bit.

[cardiogr]

Regarding the limitation to 500,000 unique words in Professioonal Edition don't you think that you should increase it?
I mean that it is impossible to index 200.000 pages (as the limit in Professional Edition is) with 500.000 unique words limitation. This means 2,5 unique words per page.

An example in my case
NumKeywords = 708809
NumPages = 31049

>700.000 unique keywords with only 31.049 pages.
Of course this is not personal, since I will receive an enterprise key, but I was wondering why is there such a limitation in unique words.

[wrensoft]

There are only about 50,000 unique words in the English language. But most people use far less than this in normal documents. Maybe only 10,000 words typically. But there are of course numbers, place names, etc... which do add to the total. But still, the limit of 500,000 will never be reached by most people.

We only know of a couple of customers that would exceed this limit. And both these customers ask a lot of questions, requiring more support time.

[cardiogr]

You are right, there are 50.000 unique words in english dictionary. But Zoom Search engine counts also the words with -1 in zoom_dictionary as unique word.
This means that
1) the same word found maybe in uppercase or with the first letter in upper case is counted as a unique word
2) Words (or word patterns) added in the skip list to avoid accented characters or numbers are also counted as unique words.
It happens that I get >700.000 unique words and more than the half of them are -1.
And I have checked that the number of the "called" unique words by the program statistics is the whole of the words added to zoom_dictionary.zdat file with no exception to the -1 words. (I have checked this by searching newline in a Regular expression software, and the number of total results is exactly the same with the unique words Statistics generated by Zoom Search Engine V5)
So , in this case even though I will have less than 500.000 words I will get a Limitation by the Professional Edition.

I think that after setting this limitation it would be fair to stop counting -1 words as unique words (because in reality they are not unique words)

[pollux57]

Will the licence for V5 beta still work with the final version ? I've buy the 4.2 pro last week. Do I ask you for the new key (enterprise edition?) or wait for your mail for the final version? And finally, where can I download the V5, once you send me the key.
Thanks for your response.
Eric

[Ray]

Yes, the license key for V5 beta will work for the final V5 release.

You can ask us for the new V5 key now if you wish to start testing the beta. Or you can wait for the final release if you prefer. The current beta is very close to the final release, but there are still a few minor bugs we are working on.

The latest V5 beta can be downloaded from the link on this thread:
http://www.wrensoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1125

[iampedro]

It is my suggestion that you update the policy on the website and include the information that upgrading to 5 pro will be limited so that you aren't mis leading new customers on the website.. I understand but I would like it for your benfit...

[wrensoft]

No one is being mislead. I don't know what you are referring to.

[Ray]

All of the abovementioned details regarding V5 will naturally be available on the main website (www.wrensoft.com (http://www.wrensoft.com)) when we put out the final release. There is no information regarding V5 at all on our site at the moment, outside of these forums.

We are trying to make it as clear as possible. If anyone has trouble understanding the information, please let us know.