mnoGoSearch web search engine software

[JCF1976]

I have a couple sincere questions.

I recently found a very nice web-site search engine. It seems to be used on hundreds of sites, including the following: http://www.ifbsearch.com/index.htm

The search engine is called mnoGoSearch. (No, I do not represent them and I am not advertising for them.) Are you familiar with them?

I sincerely want to be able to do something similar to the ifbsearch.com site. The main advantage of the mnoGoSearch program is that it uses (among others) MySQL database. This allows for great flexibility and speed with a huge database.

I have already invested close to $100 in Wrensoft's ZOOM search engine. For a Windows version of mnoGoSearch, it is $1,000 which doesn't seem feasable (or even reasonable, to me).

Can you offer suggestions?? I would really like to know what you think.

[JCF1976]

By the way, if you are wondering how I figured out that the ifbsearch.com was using mnoGoSearch, it wasn't too hard. If you are persistent enough, you can always find out what someone used to create what they did.

[wrensoft]

Using MySql is not an advantage. In fact it is a huge disadvantage. MySql is slow in general.

In isn't hard to find cases where it almost fails completely.

For example, go to their advanced search page.
http://ifbsearch.com/advanced.htm

Enter,
Search for text: s (Just this single letter)
Search for drop down: substring
Click on Search.

Then be prepared to go a make a cup of coffee.... I timed search times between 1 and 2 minutes.

And not only is the speed slow, it isn't accurate either.
Look at these results,
http://ifbsearch.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?wf=2143&q=Children+Celebrations

Then try an exact phrase search,
http://ifbsearch.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?wf=2143&q=%22Children+Celebrations%22

It just doesn't work at all !

Futher, in addition to the $1000 software cost, you should note that they say,
http://ifbsearch.com/whatsnew.htm
it took 5 months for them to implement it.

Why would you want a solution like this??

------
David

[JCF1976]

Thank you SO much for doing all of the work to reply. But, what if I want to accomplish a project of that size? And how would I have ONE database that could be searched by visitors? And how would I maintain that database on a server instead of a computer (and adding new search results to the existing database? rather than a new database being created each time?) Further, their set-up seems to provide "cache" pages. How would that be done in an automated way?

[JCF1976]

Then try an exact phrase search,
http://ifbsearch.com/cgi-bin/search....elebrations%22

It just doesn't work at all !
------
David

I would offer this search as an alternate exact phrase search:

http://ifbsearch.com/cgi-bin/search....2Bible+time%22

This site's search is based on what sites they have actually crawled. It is technically possible that they haven't crawled a site that has "Children Celebrations" in the site.

Again, I am not advertising any sites. I am wanting to do something at least as good and hopefully much better.

[wrensoft]

Your example for a working extra phrase search, just proves my point that it doesn't work. I had a look at a few of the results.

Result 57, was this page,
http://www.wilderness-cry.net/bible_study/kjvissue/understandable/chap7.html

And the exact phrase "bible time" doesn't appear anyway on this page.

It is technically possible that they haven't crawled a site that has "Children Celebrations" in the site.

Have a another look at the example I gave in my previous post. It proves this is not the case. You can see the text appears in the results of the 1st search.

As I said before, it just doesn't work.

-------
David

[wrensoft]

how would I have ONE database that could be searched by visitors?

In the case of Zoom, you just add new start points to make a single index with multiple web sites.

And how would I maintain that database on a server instead of a computer

A server is a computer. So this question doesn't make much sense. But the Zoom indexer will run on any Windows machine, including Windows server.

and adding new search results to the existing database? rather than a new database being created each time?)

If you are indexing external sites then you have no control over when they are updated and thus need to spider then regularly. Which by the way, is also a flaw in the ifbsearch search, their index is obviously out of date.

Zoom doesn't do incremental indexing. See this post for a discission on the topic.
http://www.wrensoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=299

Further, their set-up seems to provide "cache" pages. How would that be done in an automated way?

Yes. I agree with this. They provided cached pages. Zoom doesn't provide cached pages becuase the storage requirements are enormous.

------
David

[JCF1976]

how would I have ONE database that could be searched by visitors?

In the case of Zoom, you just add new start points to make a single index with multiple web sites.

Do you have documentation on how to do this?

And how would I maintain that database on a server instead of a computer

A server is a computer. So this question doesn't make much sense. But the Zoom indexer will run on any Windows machine, including Windows server.

Did you really not know what I meant or were you just being sarcastic? Honestly, you must have known what I meant and it is irritating that you didn't take the time to answer the question. The point is, if I am trying to maintain, in an ongoing fashion, a web-site (in the fashion of Google, let's say, but not anywhere of the same magnitude and more of the size of ifbsearch), I would not want to be maintaining these ZOOM databases on my local machines - I would want to maintain it (in a working fashion) on a server.

and adding new search results to the existing database? rather than a new database being created each time?)

If you are indexing external sites then you have no control over when they are updated and thus need to spider then regularly. Which by the way, is also a flaw in the ifbsearch search, their index is obviously out of date.

In my estimation, Google is always out of date too, so what is the point of your remark of them being out of date? Obviously I would have to keep crawling the sites. But, how to maintain such a project in an organized fashion is the challenge.

Zoom doesn't do incremental indexing. See this post for a discission on the topic.
http://www.wrensoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=299

I did take the time to read this thread. By the way, is it possible to create a program (maybe something for cgi-bin?) that will run on a server instead of on a local computer? something that could crawl specific sites (that the user inputs) on a regular basis and re-index them?

Further, their set-up seems to provide "cache" pages. How would that be done in an automated way?

Yes. I agree with this. They provided cached pages. Zoom doesn't provide cached pages becuase the storage requirements are enormous.

If you had something designed to run strictly on a server, the server could store the cached pages instead of the person's local computer. By the way, how do you imagine the ifbsearch site obtains the pages and keeps them cached in the way that they are doing - and in a way which is so organized and maintained?

[wrensoft]

Do you have documentation on how to do this?

See this FAQ question,
Q. How do I index multiple domains or sub-domains as one site (in spider mode)?

it is irritating that you didn't take the time to answer the question

The question was, "..how would I maintain that database on a server instead of a computer?"

The answer given was, "the Zoom indexer will run on any Windows machine, including Windows server".

So you can install Zoom on a server and schedule it to run on the server, then add / remove URLs as required using the Zoom user interface (on the server).

In my estimation, Google is always out of date too

Correct. But you were asking about adding new results to an existing database. I was just pointing out that you need to re index on a regular basis (in case you were thinking of just appending new sites, which can't be can't be done with Zoom in any case).

And becuase you need to re-index form time to time you should also consider the time required to re-index. I think you'll find Zoom is much faster.

is it possible to create a program (maybe something for cgi-bin?) that will run on a server instead of on a local computer?

See my previous answer, the Zoom indexer will run on any Windows server (of course you also need permission to install software on the server).

At the moment the only way to add URLs to the list of URLs to be indexed is via the user interface. Anything else would require some additional custom development.

...something designed to run strictly on a server

It does run on a server. See above.

the server could store the cached pages instead of the person's local computer

The location of the storage doesn't alter the amount of storage required. It would still be enormous. There isn't much advantage to cached pages if your index is up to date.

But don't under estimate the task of building a large search engine. It can be a significant job with you have 1000 of web sites and GB's of data to deal with. I also don't want to give you the impression of Zoom is the perfect solution for everyone.

Zoom is not going to give you an identical experience to ifbsearch, there are pluses and minuses. You have to consider what is important for your project.

----
David

[darrel]

Futher, in addition to the $1000 software cost, you should note that they say, it took 5 months for them to implement it.

While I'm not a DB expert, nor a search engine expert, I think that quote deserves highlighting. Zoom search was insanely easy to set up and get running. That alone puts this product ahead of the bunch, IMHO.

At the moment the only way to add URLs to the list of URLs to be indexed is via the user interface. Anything else would require some additional custom development.

A web interface to the Zoom config tool would be pretty slick. ;o)